What really is the difference between these two popular tabletop RPGs?
Dragon Age has gotten a lot of hype in both video game and tabletop RPG form, so my playgroup has been curious. And well, after playing in a Dragon Age-inspired heroic tier Shadowfell campaign, my brother was itching to GM an official DA campaign, including their unique rules system.
We’re all veteran D&D gamers – and really haven’t played much at all besides D&D all our lives. I mean, we’ve loved every edition, and it’s always been the RPG, so why mess with a good thing? Still, even loyal D&D gamers like us yearned for something different, perhaps something even more elegant than 4e’s rules-heavy and tactically rich environment.
So with only our resident power gamer fearing the worst, the rest of us welcomed the chance to try something different every other week while I continued to run our D&D 4e epic tier Frostfell campaign in between. (My brother and I rotate DMing a good portion of the year, week-to-week. If your group doesn’t give your “main” DM a break and a chance to play now and again like this, it should!)
And so, last week, we played our very first Dragon Age dark fantasy RPG game! Much like Newbie DM’s experience, we loved it. And I especially loved now being able to compare D&D 4e with Dragon Age.
Dark Fantasy
While two of the guys had never played the DA video game, I had indeed played and completed Origins (except for a few of the bonus scenarios… which I will finish, someday, I swear it!) – and so that experience immediately gave me a greater, grittier appreciation for the dark fantasy tone and feel of the setting and world.
Basically, life is scary, life is hard, and life can really suck. Horrible things happen to people every day. Tragic, horrible things. Painful, brutal decisions.
That’s dark fantasy. It tests your spirit and moral compass more than a typical fantasy setting. That sort of thing is pervasive in Dragon Age, whereas in a typical D&D game, it’s certainly there in some amount, but it’s not everywhere you look.
I played an Avvar hillsman, a barbarian from the Frostback mountains, and I loved playing up the fact that few people trusted him. After all, the main armies of the world didn’t even dare fight the Avvar on their own turf after pushing them back! And with both a city elf and dalish elf at my side, plus my normal dog I named “Mabari” (and I know some of you know why!), we definitely not only felt but exuded that whole mistrust and history of suffering vibe. Villagers loved us… after a mob of them almost lynched us. Good times!
D&D 2nd Edition: The Return
It started at character creation, where I got together with a buddy of mine to create characters. As we went through it and bounced ideas off each other after reading excerpts in the Player’s Guide, it hit me: this game has a D&D 2e feel to it. Sure there’s some “modern” 4e trappings, like ability tests, but otherwise, it felt pretty close to D&D 2e: Dark Fantasy Edition with Bonus 4e Flavoring. Er… hopefully you get the idea!
See, there were rules, all familiar in how they work to a D&D gamer. Their 3d6 is the d20 of D&D, for example, when it comes to checks and attack rolls. And yet, there was decidedly less of a base of rules to start with or know. Some things were combined quite elegantly, like some classic D&D skills and ability scores, into one thing. Communication, for example, is an ability that combines both Charisma and Diplomacy into one neat mechanic. So it’s D&D 4e: Streamlined, in addition to being like D&D 2e, especially when it comes to combat, which I’m about to get into.
Dragon Age strikes that ultimate balance of story and game expertly well. In fact, I’m floored by how elegantly they nailed it. D&D 4e is already headed this direction, albeit slowly and only in bits and pieces (i.e. Monster Vault series, Essentials rulebooks) so far.
Is this where D&D 5e is also headed? The story and character-heavier 2e and its streamlined rules combined with the “best of” 3e and 4e rules? Oh I hope so. That would be beautiful!
Fast, Cool, Exciting Combat
I loved not having to calculate and check for 1,000 tactical considerations and rules before jumping right into combat. Sure, you may not have all the initial depth of tactics that D&D 4e offers, but you get to pretty much play right away – which trumps pretty much everything. The pace of combat and decisions in combat was definitely more reminiscent of 2e, and that I loved. Monsters died quickly but not immediately like minions. Rounds moved quickly, but not too quick, and certainly not too slow.
The rich teamwork aspect of D&D 4e combat is what makes it exciting, but it still comes with big analysis paralysis due to all the tactical considerations and information overload that comes with your choice of powers alone. Teamwork still works at a typical level in DA, but I have yet to see it at the sophisticated level of D&D 4e – but it’s only been one session.
Now what makes Dragon Age combat exciting? The stunts, no doubt! Rather than every power having riders like in D&D, your attack roll determines how “cool” your attack was, as part of the 3d6 roll generates a certain amount of stunt points. You decide how you spend them when you hit, referencing this small table. Cooler stuff costs more stunt points, or you can combine a few stunts to each attack, resulting in some pretty cool strikes. For example, not only did my Avvar hillsman pierce past the boney armor of a blight wolf, I also dealt a mighty blow, dealing one more die of damage beyond my two-hand axe’s typical damage.
Our rogue lamented having to track arrows, 2e-style, but he nonetheless enjoyed his city elf rogue while our power gamer was right at home with his elven circle mage. The slightly increased complexity of spellcasters – similar to the play of them as a character in the video game – was a perfect fit for him.
Ultimately, movement and attacking was easy to learn, and certainly less complicated than D&D 4e. I didn’t feel burdened by a million considerations, nor did I wait an eternity for everyone else to go. We were able to get right into and out of the fight quickly, and stunts just made the whole sequence feel and look so cool!
Try Dragon Age
If you haven’t given it a shot yet, consider it. Hell, just do it. It won’t kill you! And tell me how it goes. (Or if you’ve already played, what did you think?)
The change of pace will be nice, and you’ll learn a lot about a whole new world and about what you do or don’t like between D&D – and all of its editions through the years – and Dragon Age. Ultimately, it’ll make you a better, more well-rounded RPG gamer. Like my playgroup, you’ll appreciate and enjoy both your D&D or Dragon Age stories and games more than ever.
Resources & Links
Great write-up! Did you use minis and battlemats for the combat? If you did, what exactly was it that sped up combat in comparison to 4e? Was it a lack of powers for the martial classes? And if so, did the mage run slowly, as in 4e?
Welcome to Leonine Roar and thanks for your comment, question!
We used D&D poster maps and minis, though it felt more like glorified 2e graph paper days (now in 3D!) more than it felt like 4e tactical combat. Meaning, it was mainly for knowing how many yards you could cover and seeing where everything else was relative to you.
Less “powers” to choose from definitely sped things up – as I said, you didn’t have that analysis paralysis from looking through them all AND crunching a bunch of tactical rules and keywords. The mage had only a few more choices to sift through compared to the martial guys.
To be honest, I’d say the potential combos from stunts make up nicely for the more sophisticated tactical crunch of 4e. It’s a style choice, or in our case, a refreshing break from 4e. Or a return to the glory of 2e, whatever 🙂
Hey, awesome post. Haven’t played DragonAge, but this certainly gives me something to look into. I wonder just how many more editions of D&D WOTC is planning on making.
Welcome to Leonine Roar, Thomas, and thanks for your comment!
Yeah, Dragon Age is a good “side trek” of D&D itself, I’m happy we gave it a shot. D&D will continue to learn and evolve from 4e and DA, and continue going strong, whatever the edition.
I think, we, the community of players, having so much access to game designers and writers now through social media, is paying real dividends. Combine that with the loyal gaming veterans that many D&D players are, plus all the fresh blood, and the future of D&D and tabletop RPGs looks really exciting.
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Nice post, but as a 30+ year D&D vet… I feel I need to chime in. I could go over my history with WotC and 3e… 3.5e… whatever abomination it is up to now. Having played the WotC games and then seeing DA played on TableTop, I believe I can safely sum things up. DA focuses on the RP in RPG… something that WotC has forgot about a long time ago. Starting at 3e and moving up, there is more accounting and track building than there is character building. I’ve gone to Origins for 20 years and have watched the RP slowly die as players simply want to move from encounter to encounter to collect their experience and min-max their character out. Seeing DA, it appeared that it forces you to actually RP. Sure… if your GM is lacking, I’m sure that they could push you from encounter to encounter in DA, but it looks like DA was built with a story… thus a REASON to RP. Wonderful when that happens.
As you mentioned above, the best thing I saw about the game was the stunts. Albeit, it looks much easier to stunt by rolling doubles on 3 6-siders than it is to crit on a d20… both for monsters as it is for the players. I’ve noticed that going thru posts such as your own that it is mostly gamers stuck in post ADnD that are excited about the stunts. My group, which has been together for 15 years, still plays ADnD (2nd ed). It is still the best. There is a reason it lasted over 10 years without being updated to a new system. The nice thing about 2nd ed is that it is an open system. It is very easy to adopt “house rules” or add on systems. I have a system called “flash manuevers” that allows your character to try something risky (ie. fighting on a moving barrel or hanging from a rope). After succeeding at it 10 times with huge minuses at first, it becomes a learned “stunt”. Problem is, not everyone is creative or brave enuff to come up with or try them. Seeing that “stunts chart” in DA makes me think there could be a new way to do crits… and I’ll be giving that a try. Let’s face it… knocking the enemy prone after doing a double strike is a whole lot kewler than rolling percentile and seeing that you do double damage. *shrug*
Sorry I rambled. -Kink
Hi Kink, great comments! Welcome to Leonine Roar!
You’re definitely onto something – I was just talking about this the other night at our weekly game with my brother. 4e definitely “mechanized” nearly everything, and there’s no question that impacted the storytelling and roleplay aspects. The wonder got crushed by a metric ton of… metrics!
Fortunately, 5e is looking like a Best of D&D across the editions so far, and definitely plays closer to D&D 2e and Dragon Age in spirit right now.
I love Dragon Age all around – perfect blend of smooth mechanics and engaging flavor. I’ll go ahead and say it: Dragon Age is a new gold standard for tabletop RPGs.
By the way, watch the TableTop videos about Dragon Age if you like – Wil Wheaton and his friends did a great job. Let me know what you think!